What the fuck is this dogshit lmao

Cates is the office bicycle.
Why is Slott rewarded so much then? He couldn't be assed to put effort in his Original Sins tie in, literally crapping Silk out before the deadline, there was a whole documentary episode focusing on how terrible he is during every step of the creation process, and Marvel rewarded him with Iron Man and their first Fantastic Four book in years.

I think he means stuff like
>Rick Jones being forgotten
>Samson and Sasquatch switching bodies not going anywhere
>Betty fucking off instead of working out her differences with Bruce
I might be forgetting a few.
Because Slott was buddies with Joe Quesada, and both gave Christopher Gage all the cleanup work

Try the Alpha Flight companion piece for some of those

It's cause Immortal Hulk was popular they're doing this, why the fuck would Marvel not cash in on something that's currently popular with fans?

Wait, Slott worked his way up from lying to get an internship to befriending Joe fucking Quesada?

Everything involving the environment as well as Karmic justice and Professor Hulk never resurfacing despite being specifically mentioned as one of two personalities that were dormant.

You mean Gamma Flight, which admittedly did show what happened to most of the supporting characters afterwards but it isn't really a resolution.
Joe and Dan were on the same page about Peter Parker being a fuckup/bachelor. So I guess?

>best-ever run on Hulk
Ewing did almost as much damage to TOAA as Cates. The fuck are you talking about?

I did mean Gamma Flight, I'm sure you understand why I mixed that up. I'd say it does a good job for what it is, and I feel like most of the other plotlines (like bruce and betty) were left (sort of) intentionally open ended. Which is more a side affect of the medium.

We all know "Starship Hulk" (seriously, what an awkward fucking way to phrase/call this situation with Banner) was just created to sell toys and merch. It's just recycling the old idea of asshole supervillain Bruce Banner, and throwing out all the good characterization the run before had. Though at risk of making an offhand compliment to Cates, which I don't want to do, Starship Hulk is better suited for an alt-universe Banner invading 616.
>damage to TOAA
What damage?

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Starship Hulk should've tied in to Ultimate stuff coming back and had that Bruce controlling his Hulk.

I want Titania to sit on my face

That sounds legitimately more interesting, and probably will beat out whatever stupid shit Cates or whoever does with Ultimate. Personally, I want Ultimate Eddie to be revealed as the AI inside of Maker's Symbiote, and take him over.

Having the One Below All just be TOAA's Hulk

I don't see the issue with that at all.

>What damage?
Cosmic and gamma rays are actually TOAA magic that he uses for cosmic Book of Job style morality tests he does because he's mentally ill (TOBA is his Hulk) and also Bruce is some sort of cosmic entity called the Counterweight that wasn't actually explained at all despite it being the justification for his entire existence.

Also TOAA is implied to be the Judeo-Christian god and Bruce might be green Jesus.

If you meant what damage did Cates do, TOAA isn't all powerful anymore and lost to Thanos like a bitch.

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Has Puck ever had a solo series about his own adventures and crazy life that he talks about? I'd read the shit out of that.

>TOAA isn't all powerful anymore and lost to Thanos like a bitch
Kek, what?

Did I fucking stutter?

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According to a guy in a spec group Cates said at a con that he's basically just doing his "greatest hits" for every book he writes now. So get ready for constant attempts to recapture the success of Knull and Cosmic Ghost Rider.

>TOBA is his Hulk
are you fucking serious?

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Oh, right. Was that Cates? I thought that was the Starlin mini?

I have no problem with TOAA/TOBA. He's creation, and destruction. "Hulk" is just a term so you the reader can better understand it. Cosmic Radiation and Gamma are just the energies relating to these two extremes that make up whole of this supreme being we know as God.

>Any Forumsntrarians suddenly hate Immortal Hulk now

He's doing a shit job of explaining it. Basically The One Above All is also The One Below All, everywhere and nowhere, creator and destroyer of all things so the cosmos can keep spinning.
This is the sad nature of Any Forums really. Just look at the last few Batman runs where people start saying "Oh the last guy was better!" when the new run hits

>Oh the last guy was better!
I've never seen anyone say this about Tom King.

I preferred it when TOAA was just the in universe writer or prime mover and not a meta analogue thereof. there was no need for this kind of satanic duality especially considering the kabbalistic elements thrown into the series

Insane as it may sound, yes we have had people (likely shitposters) saying that they wanted King back when Tynion took over the book

The Book of Job is ass, implying Job's suffering serves some sort of unexplained cosmic point despite the point of the original story explicitly not being that is ass, forcing comics god to be the Judeo-Christian god is ass, nothing about that bullshit works narratively.

If it was JUST having the ultimate universal being embody both good and evil, that would be fine. It's also having him act out batshit reproductions of the worst story in the Bible that's the fucking problem. Also Marvel needs to stop turning lab accidents into divine providence.

It's not really duality when the being encapsulates all things that exist. You're just understanding the two extremes of the whole. He still is the "writer" of existence because he's deciding the script of how everything turns out

I feel like King can be really good when he's got a finite, closed story to tell, like Mister Miracle. I thought that shit was great. Ongoings are where he stumbles big time.

>If it was JUST having the ultimate universal being embody both good and evil
That's exactly what it was. Good and evil are just words, based on perspective. The book isn't saying "Oh Christianity was right", it's comparing Bruce's life to Job because both men suffered greatly and both contemplated if it served a higher purpose. You're just triggered because it used biblical themes in general to tell a story

it's very much a duality, this is legitimately undeniable. you'd think the above/below would be telling enough
the simple fact that he manifests through gamma radiation and power cosmic leads me to believe the latter part of your post is only based on functionality rather than principle.

>Mister Miracle
>Good
I will never, EVER say good things about that book because A) King has a child's view on mental issues with nothing new to say and B) He wrote Scott choosing a fucking prison which is thematically against his entire character

Again, the above/below and gamma/cosmic are the extremes of the being. Existence itself is a constant complex tug of war, push and pull, of these concepts. There is no good/evil at work here, just a system to keep things going. You're taking TOBA as some mastermind evil supervillain when that's not really the point of this book. The true antagonist was The Leader more or less

I never read any Cosmic Ghost Rider stuff, is it good?

i don't think you realize what a duality encompasses. it doesn't mean the ends of the duality are different beings.
>You're taking TOBA as some mastermind evil supervillain
I'm really not, you made up your mind about what I'm saying and decided to argue with this fake interpretation of me

>You're just triggered because it used biblical themes in general to tell a story
No. I am triggered because they used literally the worst biblical themes, changed those themes to somehow make them even stupider, half-assed the explanation, and dragged the Fantastic Four's origin into that bullshit.

Also, Jesus Hulk and mentally ill god.

Also also, the Book of Job doesn't fucking at all work if you have Job confront God and God act like a tool to his face. The point of the god damn story is God works in mysterious ways and you should not let suffering cripple your faith. It is NOT that God's some sort of insane cosmic troll tossing around green monsters while talking like a broken AI.

I've never read it either because the premise alone turns me off, but to clarify I was just using it as an example of something that was a breakout hit rather than making a statement of quality.

>I'm really not, you made up your mind about what I'm saying and decided to argue with this fake interpretation of me
Then maybe I misunderstand your point. Don't victimize here. We're having a discussion

>Also, Jesus Hulk and mentally ill god.
If that's how you interpreted Ewing's Hulk run, then you're legitimately retarded
>The point of the god damn story is God works in mysterious ways
Which is exactly what was going on there you fucking idiot.

I'm not victimizing, and I apologize if I come across as too standoffish to engage. What I'm saying is that, practically speaking, TOAA and TOBA both manifest their influence through relatively mundane routes. Relative, of course, to what his power would be if he were simply truly omnipotent. And the duality is present because there is a distinction between the influence of Above and Below. I'm not getting into more alchemical "as above, so below" jargon but it would apply nonetheless, whether intentional or not

>Which is exactly what was going on there you fucking idiot.
No. No it fucking wasn't. Calling Hulk the Counterweight isn't mysterious ways. It's cosmic bullshit. Giving God a mindless hate machine alternate personality also isn't mysterious ways. And to reiterate, the Book of Job is ass in the first place.

It's not an "alternate personality" you moron, it's to show that he is Alpha and Omega, creator and destroyer. This flew so far above your head you took it as the supreme being being schizo.

This is why people call comic readers fucking dumb, people like you

That's literally what he still is though. Like if you can't tell that TOAA was also meant to be the author in that last issue, I question your reading comprehension.

Do you not fucking get that Ewing was drawing parallels between the Book of Job and comic book characters in general? It's pretty much just Animal Man.

>It's not an "alternate personality" you moron
It's a literal Hulk. What it's supposed to symbolize and the cosmic role it fulfills doesn't change WHAT IT LITERALLY IS IN UNIVERSE.

Writers and readers that forget that stories are more than just meta bullshit need to fuck off and stay the fuck out of books about colorful bricks punching each other. Hasn't meta bullshit done enough damage over in DC?

See
I get the parallels. The parallels do not make the story better. Because they didn't commit, because building a story with those parallels in this setting is bad actually, and because the story those parallels was based on is bad actually as a narrative.

It doesn't work as a literary device. It has a shitty source material, and it conflicts with the universe.

Something being an allegory doesn't fucking make it a good narrative.

>It's a literal Hulk
In the loosest sense so morons like you can understand the concept, but apparently not. No God doesn't have an alt personality for shits and giggles.

What's it like being too stupid for comic books, user?

TOAA is also a stand in for the writer in some stories but it's really what the writer wants it to be.

Also you're thinking of Starlin, not Cates.

>No God doesn't have an alt personality for shits and giggles.
Yes. He does. I reiterate, stories exist on more than just the meta level. We are shown an alternate personality presumably created for shits and giggles acting as an alternate personality.

He even eats Metatron...speaking of shit that made no sense.

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This never actually happened, you realize that right?

I just thought it was funny that some Hulkfags thought Ewing was gonna have Hull fight TOBA DBZ style.

Anyway they're getting their wish with Cates and Ottley so they must be happy.

I think it's more than that. Cates and Bendis make people talk. Even if it's for the wrong reasons.

Bendis sure makes his characters talk

>Sure the narrative was ass, but you need to look at how great the metanarrative was.
But the narrative was ass.

I swear to fuck Immortal Hulk is just Any Forums's NGE.

>This never actually happened, you realize that right?
I am showing you a page of it happening. The actual fuck are you talking about? Did your brain break trying to continue to defend this bullshit?

What does that even mean? Like effectively that whole time/worldline is just a fucked up little story that God told the Leader?

Cates fucking admitted on his twitter he turned shit on the last day of his deadline and sometimes late so editors don't have enough time to edit his work. Could have been joking but it's scummy if true

Nothing in comics actually happens.

That's from a future that didn't happen. For fuck sake actually read the fucking issues before you sperg about it. Oh wait, I'm on Any Forums, you fuckers dont read a damn thing

I don't even know one single genuine person let alone hulkfag who is happy with this run.

>That's from a future that didn't happen
Something retconning itself from the timeline is immaterial to whether it happened in a higher dimensional sense and doubly immaterial to whether it can be used as evidence of an entity's nature that exists absent those events happening.

TOBA didn't suddenly grow a personality in the aborted future. I know that shit was retconned from the timeline, fuckwit.

What the fuck are you talking about? Averted timelines still exist as seen by the Leader finding that fucked-up bug thing and that spurring him into his course of action to really make the most of the Green Door stuff.

From what I understood, this was Bruce, not god. Bruce turned hollow, just turned into a being of rage. You see when TOBA possesses someone, it's not literal possession, it's being overcome by rage, overcome by hatred (hatred is his weapon). Also to the other fags, no this future did happen, and a tiding fly was sent back. It was only averted after Child Hulk learnt forgiveness and forgave Samuel, something Robert could not back in the day.

This was Leader, not TOBA/TOAA. That was the thing "wrong" because Leader was hijacking bodies and abusing the doors. This future thankfully didn't happen because he was stopped by the Hulks from further syphoning off powers he couldn't understand/control. It's the same scenario when he consumed Brian Banner

>You see when TOBA possesses someone, it's not literal possession, it's being overcome by rage, overcome by hatred (hatred is his weapon).
Except that is explicitly not the case. TOBA Hulk is explicitly shown to just be a mindless husk being remotely piloted by TOBA. Bruce isn't home.

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Hulklactus called himself TOBA though, so it probably wasn't the Leader.

See

Yes, it's hollow and it's destroying things in its rage. Whatever soul was is gone. Bruce has been hollowed out by rage and hatred. My interpretation still stands here.

Still, I think we're missing the larger point of this thread which is that whatever dark hulk Cates is introducing is going to be absolute garbage.

DUDE HULK VS TRUMP IT'S GONNA BE FUCKING KINO

Cates Hulk is so bad people end up discussing Immortal instead

goddamn what did Cates do this time?

>Banner split his psyche and body into distinct parts
>Banner turned Hulk into, and I quote, "a starship"
>Hulk body
>Banner in control/pilot seat
>Savage Hulk is the "engine" that runs on Banner making him mad to generate strength
It's so fucking stupid I hate even typing that shit out.

Remember, this is picking up right after Immortal and what felt like a huge reconciliation between the 3 longest-running Banner/Hulk personalities at the end of that series.

I can see how that would appeal to, dare I say, normals. so at least it's probably gonna sell. goddamn, though. and I thought Venom Blanco and Thor de las Estrellas were bad

It's bonkers in the worst way, especially after Immortal Hulk. It's almost like Cates didn't read anything Banner-related after Civil War II (which is probably the case)

Oh right, the reason Banner is doing this is because a new Hulk personality has shown up and is described to be the most twisted and evil one yet and caused some overhyped tragedy.

In other words, he's literally just rehashing Ewing's run but worse. I think he just got really assblasted about the Hulk/Venom crossover?

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>the Hulk/Venom crossover
The Absolute Carnage one? I should hate-read this.

is Cates stuck in his teenaged years or something? or is Marvel regressing back to the 90s?

I think the only other writer he's familiar with is Aaron.

Except there is explicitly no rage so even being charitable to your shitty interpretation, you're fucking wrong.
>I expected to find rage but there was nothing
Is fairly fucking explicit.

I think I have the first appearance of Devil Hulk in my collection somewhere

>dragged the Fantastic Four's origin into that bullshit
nah fuck off that shit was actually good. Immortal 49 is rad

>implying there wasn't a consistent amount of people who don't dislike Ewing and his shitty books
I don't care for the Hulk either and him dropping plot lines and aimlessly writing shitty dialogue to fill issues while he does a lackluster finale did nothing to change my opinion. I hated Peter David Hulk, too. I generally dislike the character unless it's characters realizing the Hulk is not that big of a threat and toss him into the upper atmosphere like a ragdoll.

Jewish mysticism that's younger than Islam also turns me the fuck off. Berserk was barely tolerable when Miura did the idea of evil, although I found it tragically poetic that a bad heart killed him.

That was Starlin.

Hulk just doesn't have any good comics.
Most cape characters have no good comics.
>I feel like King can be really good
He can't. He's proven time and again that's he's incapable.

So you just hate Kabbalic/Gnostic influence?

No, I hated it because a fat British cuck keeps pushing his fanfic through every fucking part of the Marvel Universe and like a true Brit he just can't help being retarded. His takes on characters are unimaginative retreads of the same thing. The only thing good about the run was the art, I'd pay for the trade san dialogue. Great thing Ewing complained about the artist.

Aleister Crowley was a shitty poet and a fag who Brits had called a good writer because Lovecraft and Irish contemporaries wrote circles around him. I do hate that about any fuck who brings up the Kabbalah uses that idiots ideas, Moore included.

A lot of great works were inspired by Crowley.
Immortal Hulk is not among them.

>and like a true Brit he just can't help being retarded
Are there any good English comic writers?

I'll be honest, it sounds like you just hate it whenever someone tries to do anything other than the lowest common denominator.

>perfect run

hulk had good stories until planet hulk. after that you have that cringe hulk family stuff they invented.

Some anons just have retarded, left-field pet peeves.

>>perfect run
Don't you fucking put words in my mouth, coward

>I don't like the Hulk unless he's a jobber

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that's neither better nor worse than him being a memetic one punch man with an anger gimmick

>taoist nonsense
D*sney really want that chink dollar.

Yeah, I bet Chinese people really love using Marvel as kindling.

It's the second best use for it, after toilet paper.

>Rick Jones being forgotten
>Samson and Sasquatch switching bodies not going anywhere
Tranny Flight follows up both of these
>Betty fucking off instead of working out her differences with Bruce
That was fucking retarded, but Ewing put her on his Defenders roster.
The real abandoned threads are
>General Ross gets foreshadowed hard and then his presense just vanshes from the book(due to Coates' meddling with his shitty run)
>Professor Hulk hiding somewhere in the mindscape
>Everything about Banner shifting the world balance.

Kek

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I don't remember Ross being foreshadowed at all. I thought Ewing knew from the beginning he was off-limits.

I miss the times when it just a happy little science accident...why must things be overcomplicated?

Don't care how bad it is or how bad it gets I'm going to be one of those power wank guys and say so long as Hulk potnetially destroys a universe or does some OP shit I'll read it.

>shit writers get work; they meet deadlines.
I think this is more the case for Artists, like Greg land and Larroca than Writers

>Tranny Flight
what did it do to deserve such an epithet?

As you said, the Ross stuff isn't Ewing's fault. But yeah it seemed like we should have gotten a lot more "world war Hulk" content but then Leader triggered the endgame early. Maybe that was intentional misdirection to surprise the audience? Or maybe no one else wanted to play with the concept and editorial told him to hurry it up.

>editorial told him to hurry it up.
Why is this so common in modern marvel?

>there was a whole documentary episode focusing on how terrible he is during every step of the creation process

god y'all niggas don't get jokes.

The support scientist is trans which means the whole miniseries is a thought crime.

No, writers too. Quick writers mean you. can plan ahead of time, get covers made early, art can be done earlier. It makes things a lot easier overall since its the foundation for the books.
That's been common since books were invented man.

But yeah it definitely seemed like Hulk and Namor were going to do some shit. If I had to bet, I think Ewing was planning on getting some kind of Dark Defenders book which would have been Shadow Base Hulk and friends just really shaking up the status quo, but it didn't get approved.

She should be drawn as a tranny instead of looking indistinguishable from an actual woman. And it's clearly detrimental to Marvel as a whole when people write 'her' like this.

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huh. what compels someone to write this kinda stuff?

She's a mad scientist who used to work for AIM. You really think she can't change her own chromosomes? She just needed some dodgy loans to get the right equipment because she's a perfectionist.

If I'm being completely honest, to deliberately distort the definition of what a woman is, for some reason that I'm positive is sexual in nature. Meme answer, because this is who wrote it.
That would actually be a novel approach, and I'd be all for it. But no, she is specifically mentioned to have used HRT and manufactured it under Kingpin.

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I get self inserts, but this is just weird. If trans women really are women in your mind, why not just abstain from mentioning it? You could even have that faggy heart flag the character's wearing, and just never mention it.

so Cates is introducing his own Cosmic god-level thing with Titans then? since the Villian in the current Thor arc is defined as a titan as well.

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Because wrote it, and either knows he'll always be a man and is wildly insecure over it, or is trying to spread the retarded idea that men who say they're men should be treated as women by every facet of society.

Unfortunately yes. And the worst part is that I think he genuinely doesn't know that those were already a thing before him.

you also forgot the foreshowing of Namor and Banner teaming up, and doing something together.

the Gamma Flight writer did not write that short story. I think she wrote about the trans-She-hulk cosplayer.

I don't know who wrote it. I was just wondering about the idea behind the dialogue. It sticks out like a sore thumb. Same thing happened with Ewing's trans character. The non-sequitur of "I know how it feels to be treated as a monster tooo" just came off as condescending, and I don't understand why writer's can't find a way to naturally reveal that information. It's a visual medium, so it's that much easier.